Smokers: Apple doesn't want your business
This seems somewhat strange to us: Apple is allegedly refusing to honour warranties on Macs belonging to smokers, voiding warranties while arguing that smoking near a Mac exposes the tech support worker to secondhand smoke.
Sure, chain smoking can make everything around disgusting and we feel for those technicians who have to deal with those machines that probably stink and have some tar residue in the fans. But does smoking actually cause damage to the computer?
As the Consumerist reports: “Two readers in different parts of the country claim that their Applecare warranties were voided due to secondhand smoke. Both readers appealed their cases up to the office of God Steve Jobs himself. Both lost.”
In one of the cited cases, a user took their Mac in to be repaired, only to have the Apple Store call them up to argue that since the computer had been used in a house where people smoked, the warranty had been voided and tech support refused to work on the Mac due to “health risks of second hand smoke”.
A second case saw a similar refusal, with Apple now saying smoking near a Mac creates a biohazard. The company even argued that the two-year old Mac was “beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke”.
That's another thing. If tar from smoking causes damage to MacBooks, then voiding the warranty is understandable. If you used you Mac in a coal mine and it sucked in too much dust, would you expect Apple to fix it for free? However, there should be some sort of warning that "smoking can cause harm to MacBooks." We didn't know that was possible, did you?
Consumerist has tried to get a response from Apple over these two cases, but we can see no valid way in which repairing a smoker’s Mac exposes any technician to second hand smoking risks.
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Comments (78)
Feel free to use this picture as your icon and in future stories:
http://img522.yfrog.com/img522/1886/smokingapple.jpg
thanks!
No problem. Happy to help.
These are the signs posted all around 1 Infinite Loop.
A photo had to be taken.
It's true, ever looked inside the computer of a heavy smoker? And when I say heavy smoker, I mean at least a pack a day. Think of all the dust that enters a computer of your average computer user, when you add that with the smoke that is in the air, everything gets covered with a nasty yellow "grease". Don't believe me? Take a wet paper towel and wipe the inside windshield of a smoker's car, it's a yellowish-brown nasty layer of grime. It's the same with the computer if you sit and smoke in front of it. Inside and out.
...and just for the record, this isn't some anti-smoking bash. I'm a smoker, but I stopped smoking in the house 6 years ago because it ruins everything.
So you stopped smoking in the house because "smoking ruins everything". Just a reminder: It ruins your lungs just in the same way! This nasty yellow "grease" is all over your lungs, all inside of you. Nice, isn't it?
I'm sure you saying that is going to make him have some sort of life changing realization. All smokers know the dangers. Saying crap like that just makes people not care less.
i'd have to agree--tar bleeds through house paint even years after a smoker has moved away. on the other hand, apple is uber greedy, and seems to take any and all excuses to get out of a warranty. those moisture sensors are a case in point.
Greedy? If the tar killed the computer I can totally see denying warranty service, it is was the cause of the failure it is no different than dumping your MacBook in the pool. It would be misusing the warranty if you expect anyone to pay for the damage caused by something outside of the control of the manufacturer.
Bought a second hand car, previous owned smoked. Exactly as you said, yellow tint for which I had apply first soap and then iKlear several times. And now, wait for it... the aircon filter was dirty from outside particles as from the nicotine residuals. And that's a car. Think of delicate electronics in a computer, often manufactured in near vacuum.
BTW, WHO doesn't employ smokers any more. And it's not discrimination.
Having worked on a number of Macs (and other PCs) from inside heavy smoker houses, I'm with Apple on this, for the reasons cited above ("it's true, ever looked inside"). It's disgusting and not difficult to imagine that gunk affecting a computer's inner workings.
And you note, "...we can see no valid way in which repairing a smoker’s Mac exposes any technician to second hand smoking risks." I've been in smokers' houses (relatives) who had given up years ago and I still get sick (allergic & bronchitis) when we move furniture around or even just sit at their computer desk. My own E/N/T told me to stay away because the residue can linger for years, and still affect my allergies and, to an extent, my lungs. So unless you're a doctor and have something to back that up, I wouldn't make that claim.
I had a boss that assigned his old PC to me. He was a heavy smoker, and his machine was caked with a bizarre grimmy beige film. And that was the outside. When I had to upgrade the RAM, I opened it up, and good god - the machine had that beige film and an inordinate amount of dust attached to it. The empty RAM slots weren't visible to the naked eye. It was disgusting. I tried to clean it off... first with a vacuum, which wouldn't release the attached dust - and then with toothpicks. I could never get the new RAM to work in that thing - evidently the gunk was impeeding the contacts.
Machines like this simply do not operate in a normal operating environment - equivillent to a dusty & dirty factory.
Heavy metals in tobacco smoke and on clothing originated from the Earth - they're everywhere, they're NATURAL. The risk of heavy metal is from their ingestion or injection, not just their contact.
Water will kill you if you ingest enough of it. It is the dose that kills, not just the specific chemical structure of a product.
People who smoke possibly have lower IQs because smoking is something idiots typically do - it is evident that these stupid alleles would be passed on through generations. Call it selective breeding of idiots.
If a person is not allergic to tobacco residue there is no reason that Apple cannot repair a machine with tobacco residue. Apple can charge a fee for the necessary training and equipment, and one can expect a delay in repairs, but this is the worst that Apple can and should do.
I'm surprised that you haven't seen an allergist. I have doubts that an ENT has the training and experience that you appear to need.
It's not "secondhand smoke" in the sense that it's still smoke floating around. What they mean is that objects that have been subjected to heavy smoking environments have tar, grime, and terrible smells coming from them. And those things can still be health hazards.
No more hazardous than the chemicals used for cleaning (ex. acetone) and vapors from solder. A technician who worries only about tobacco residue and not the other petrochemicals, heavy metals, volatile substances, and inherent toxins that he/she is exposed to to daily is less than ignorant. Heck, living in California means that you are also exposed to concentrations of ozone, lead, particulates; mud slides; and earthquakes - all of which makes a few miiligrams of tobacco residue seem innocuous by comparison. Call me when you have a real villian, Apple.
We're talking about U.S. citizens not Apple's Chinese serfs - big difference, you know.
Typical liberal points of view. Liberals love to push their viewpoints on everyone else.
This is just another way for Apple to get out from having to honor a warranty.
So you are saying that there are no conservative's pushing their view points. Take abortion for example. No one can claim that any Republican would hold up a national Health Care Bill over an abortion viewpoint can they? And you believe that If a woman opposes an abortion she simply doesn't have one. So forcing an anti-abortion amendment to the bill must be a Liberal viewpoint.
Okay, I'll take the bait. I'd say a logical (since we are talking about computers) point of view would be not to allow anyone to kill anyone or have any authority or power over another that can hurt the outcome of their life. Abortion and the Health Care Bill and working on a Smoker's Computer (much less a smoking computer). So, it appears that you should not smoke, we should not have national health care or abortions, because all effect the longevity of life.
it is better than them just saying no! like most pc makers
I'm a Liberal and a smoker and Apple is wrong on this. None of my Macs has EVER exhibited any buildup or stench because I'm carful. We're also an Apple Authorized Service Provider +. We've seen a few of these units and we repair them UNDER warranty.
Is it unpleasant? Yes.
Do we refuse to repair them? No. If it's really bad, I'll clean it before handing it over to a non-smoking tech.
Do we advise them to not smoke around their computer? Yes indeed and also suggest they put a small fan near their Mac to redirect the airflow if they choose to continue to smoke around it.
We honour the warranty. It's unethical and simply misplaced moral superiority for Apple to refuse to honour the warranty.
'Nuff said.
Oops. "…I'm carful…" should have been "…I'm careful…". Ironic, I know.
It sounds like Consumerist should be interviewing you! It looks like they got their facts wrong. That's the problem with "anonymous victims" - who knows what axe they have to grind.
I think that Apple SHOULD honor the warranties. I am a non-smoker and I usually fucking hate smokers. However, IF it was not identified in their warranty terms that smoking would void the warranty, they should honor it. If the new warranties prohibit it, then the buyer should have known before buying and not smoked around it. I have never seen the inside of a smokers computer and never would have though it to be a big deal, but if it is, then they are justified. Just like spilling something on your computer is not covered.
Jim
When there was still a floppy drive in the normal computer, the two reasons for failure was smoking and household pets. But to void warranty is new. A big notice on the manual would be nice. Anything to keep the few smokers left as alienated as possible.
Not new at all,
I've refused warranty work on a computer because the damage was caused by smoking. If I can determine it was the cause of the problem. RAM failures and CPU overheat is not unusual to see because of this.
Any time I've had to blow the sticky dust out of a computer brought in for service, I have to wear a dust mask, and it leaves a mess that has to be cleaned up. In many cases, I will take a picture of the system and give them to the customer. In some cases I will even charge extra for cleaning that out.
I'm not lawyer, but I'm fairly certain that Apple can't legally void someone's warranty simply because their Mac was used in the vicinity of someone who smokes. First of all, there's no way to determine if the owner is the smoker. Second, tobacco residue on a computer is not second hand smoke. Smoke is airborne, it gets in your lungs--residue does not.
They could potentialy claim that tobacco residue that is sufficiently heavy to cause a part to fail constitutes misuse or abuse by the user and is not a manufacturing defect, but that gets tricky to prove that the residue was in fact the cause of the failure. But for them to claim that voiding your warranty on the grounds that smoke residue on your computer exposes their techs to secondhand smoke is completey without merit.
I agree. However, I think that Apple can void someone's waranty when the machine is damaged due to the exposure to an exceedingly high level of environmental dirt. Certainly no machine with a fan and ventilation can survive in an extremely dirty environment.
All retail PC techs that have worked in the business for any substantial amount of time have seen this kind of stuff - a machine that has become so sticky and dirty on the inside that it is impossible to repair without complete disassembly and a chemical bath.
Not all smokers have an exceedingly unclean household. But I know from first hand experience that some do. Such dirty air gets drawn into the device and sticks everywhere.
As an experiment: close all the doors and windows of a room. Put a computer in there. Smoke three packs of cigs in there as you surf. Never vent out the room, and never clean. Repeat daily for 6 months.
Yeah, people are like that. Open up your computer after 6 months and you won't be surprised: Fans almost inoperable. Heat sinks coated with crap. DVD drive caked. Vents blocked. Piles of sticky grime on every component.
People being treated unfairly can always take their case to court. But they rarely do when they know they'll lose. And therefore, they take their case to the court of public opinion where they can control their message.
Residue DOES get into your lungs. Residue smells. And when you can smell something, it's in the air, and thus gets into your lungs. Studies have shown that for example clothes that have been worn in a smoky place are still hazardous even hours after you left this place, simply because the residues on them still stink and are just as harmful as smoke itself.
Nonsense. I dare you to present independent scientific research that supports your claim that tobacco "smells" from residue deposited on surfaces cause health hazards. You say there are "studies" - reference them.
No toxicologist classifies the inherent hazard of a chemical entity on the capacity of a person's olfactory tissues to distinguish odors.
"I'm not lawyer, but I'm fairly certain that Apple can't legally void ..."
Should have stopped after the first phrase because it disqualifies you from saying everything else afterwards.