Remember when we told you about new laws being secretly put into effect on a global basis which means officials can confiscate your iPod, iPhone, mobile phone, computer or anything else? How they could keep it and search it without charge, oversight or consequence? We got told it would never happen at the time. But it has.
This is total crap! I know we currently have the threat of terrorism at our doorstep, but this is taking it way too seriously. If there are no specifics as to how long they can hold this stuff, they should at least have a legitimate cause as to what they can do. Plus, leaving it in the power of border agents and TSA employees really screws things up. How can a border cop or a TSA employee understand what is copyrighted or not - let along know if you are a terrorist or a child pornographer? They should at least have limits as to what they can do - or be briefed to notice any signs of suspicious activity and/or who is suspected.
Americans should definitely stand up and fight against the abhoring piece of legislature!
I find it interesting that any time news is presented about this, they like to show photos of people going through security screenings before getting ona plane. These searches are NOT legal at that point. This only has to do with crossing international borders.
The practice of searching belongings at borders has been around forever. If you have a briefcase, they can read every piece of information in it at a border, that's nothing new. Up until now, the searches have only been allowed to stop child porn and the like, not copyright infringements, so that part would be new, if ACTA is ratified.
This isn't all a US thing to crush civil liberties. The international community is working together on a treaty to enforce IP laws, so that would probably affect entries into Canada too.
Also, don't be convinced by that user comment read in the video: "I'll Fedex my laptop. They can pry my data form my cold dead hands," or whatever. All items entering the country are subject to border searches, whether through the airport in your luggage or in a Fedex package.
Finally, I agree that the ability to confiscate and copy everything is going too far. Right now, this power is relegated to a gray zone of US law. If they are going to be intruding upon our computers to such a great degree, there should at the very minimum be posted laws, so we know what we can do to avoid these problems.
You need to re-read the Constitution and pay particular attention to the Fourth Amendment. You are wrong to state that border agents already have the right to read the contents of your briefcase, they don't. Nor do they have the right to seize, copy, and retain private information on your lap top indefinitely.
You need to reread your Constitution. The government cannot conduct illegal searches and seizures, but the government has plenary power to regulate international commerce. This is done under a customs rule, where "The government's interest of security is at its peak." (or something like that) Find me one instance where the constitutional ban on unreasonable searches and seizures has changed the actions of government agents with people entering the border. Here's one: They can't do invasive cavity searches for drugs without a little suspicion. Yes, they only need a little. This might shock you: government agents can disassemble your gas tank without any suspicion as you drive in form Mexico. Nothing says they can't.
For better or worse, at the border, government agents can do anything they want, and ALWAYS have been able to. The Fourth doesn't apply there. They DO have the right to seize, copy, and retain information on your laptop.
The reason to fear the new regulations, is that with ACTA, they likely will be seeking pirated music on laptops and charging you with a crime after confiscating your electronics. Up until now, they haven't been looking for that material in their searches, they've been looking for terrorists and child pornographers. When they start analyzing every file on your drive for whether it was legally downloaded or not, then I think we've got a real problem. Will I have to carry proof that every song on my iPhone was ripped from a CD or downloaded from iTunes? That would negate the convenience of the device entirely.
I'm not defending this, I'm just saying it really isn't new, and rambling about it being unconstitutional is a waste of time, as is comparing it to TSA searches before you get on an airplane.
Even conservative justices don't argue that the commerce clause overrides enumerated rights-in this case the 4th and 5th amendments. You say you don't support it but are happy to bend over for it, which is pretty un-American.
This is ridiculous, if you're a business traveler, you must carry a laptop, then, without any reason, they take your laptop away with private informations on it.
Confidential informations
Your falmily photos, private photos with your wife etc...
This is absurd !
They go too far with this "anti terrorism" bla bla bla...
My $2000 macbook pro, they take your property away from you !
So, you ca't send e-mails, post photos to a family blog...
You vacation in the US begins badly !
How can they possibly know what is copyrighted or not?
If I have 25 MP3 albens on my hard drive, so what?
How can you prove the music is ripped from your CDs or downloaded from the Internet???
Let's do the same with Americans coming to Europe, what do you think ?
Come on !!!
I'm very angry with this !
I love the US very much but they exagerate a lot, don't you think?
Back in mid-June, there were headlines on the front page of the Vancouver Sun, like: "Is Your iPod Breaking The LAW?", continuing on into articles about border searches of laptops, hard drives, portable music players, etc.
There seemed to be more emphasis on piracy than on any terroristical threats. I'm surprised that this wave of press on this border issue isn't looking at the Music & Film Industries' potential influence on this matter.
Is the Vancouver Sun the same family as the Toronto Sun and the Calgary Sun?
Seriously, it's bird cage liner, who cares what they have to say about any topic?
You know what the Sun is good for: they can make a shocking headline out of anything, which they put in big block letters on the front page, and below it they have a brightly coloured picture from a completely unrelated story, and usually, the juxtaposition of headline and picture is funny.
But you can play Sun Cover Story mix-n-match without taking it out of the newspaper box.
Don't you people realize that there are (Insert pluralized name of religion here) that want to take over the United States, that terrorists from (Name of religion)-led countries seek to rape your daughters and eat your pets? America is at war with (Insert pluralized name of religion here) and none of us are safe until every (Name of religion here) is either (locked up) (deported) (micro-chipped) (Choose One). This is serious stuff, folks, and the confiscation of your iPod is a small price to pay for freedom and the preservation of the great world view held by (Name of politician running for President).
I believe the people in the U.S. need to get some courage to stand up to these idiots in our government who are making these laws and vote them out of office. I personally do not want to live in a society where the data from my entire life is copied and stored by the US government to sift through at their leisure. Imagine if you are in business and have all your confidential business trade secrets, contacts, emails on your laptop and Homeland security decides to pull you out of line and copy the contents of your entire hard drive to their data bank.
People in the US need to stop living in fear and giving up all their rights because of a fear of terrorism. Who wants to live in a police state?
This will kill some of the buissness deals from other contrys.
.
Company A is not from the US. but will make a deal whit Company B from the US
.
Company A will not travel to the US whit it's buisness plans, becouse of the change that the govement migth wan't to hold on to there data for some time while they are copying it to there server
.
Company B can effort/have the people to travle all over the world, when a nother buiness migth wan't to make buiness whit them
.Or Company A will not allow Company B to take date whit them back to the US. in fear that the govement wan't to copy the data.
.
.
So Company A and B will not do buiness.
Well good thing that USA do not have economy problems
The reason people are outraged is because this sort of thing isn't supposed to happen in the U.S.
In other parts of the world, it's the norm. So those of you from other countries who say "We should do it to them!" I have news for you: your governments already are.
I agree that this policy is wrong and unconstitutional; but to call the U.S. a "police state" because of it is every bit as wrong as the policy itself.
And comparing the current U.S to the Soviet Union? Hmmm... this policy affects those entering the United States from other countries, which they can do fairly freely, or returning citizens. Hmmm... I don't recall a lot of tourism and business travel to the Soviet Union. And many of those who left didn't want to return, with thousands who had the opportunity defecting to the U.S.
Yes, we need to stand up to this policy. Search it? fine. Nobody made me leave the country, and nobody made those coming to the U.S. do it. It's a personal choice, and they've long had the right to search you or your belongings when you come into the country. A laptop is just another container. However, copying the data or confiscating the item for an unspecified period of time is ridiculous.
But, please, comparing the U.S., even with policies to places like the Soviet Union or China is absurd.
Change the focus: Spain has dealt with real terrorists for 50 years, and you still can fly without having your shoes x-rayed. That was the first step in the US to see how compliant and complacent the populace is, then comes no gels or liquids, etc. This is the next step. No, we're not a police state yet, but the state is testing and pushing the limits until folks like you say, "Sure, a full cavity search is just fine" and "random household 'reviews' by DHS ensure our security." This is totalitarianism not by revolution but by incrementalism, and you buy into it. Disgusting.
You seem to ignore the fact that this will not impact most U.S. citizens. Only about a quarter of the U.S. populace has a passport at any given time. This only affects people coming into the country, as it is a border search. This has nothing to do with security searches at airports where they make you take your shoes off or take away your precious hair gel. This is a customs search for people entering the country, where the government has ALWAYS been able to search anything and everything they want, as much as they want. Since most U.S. citizens don't leave the country this will never affect them. It will mostly affect Canadians, and I say good, because I've always distrusted their beady little eyes...
Yes, classic argument. It doesn't affect me, so it doesn't matter. Until it does, then we'll hear you piss and moan about your rights, the Constitution, the founding fathers, etc. etc. ad nauseam.
Injustice anywhere threatens justice everywhere. This law has nothing to do with terrorism. It's the government using a powerful loophole to kowtow to corporations. It starts at the border and it'll end inside your home, without a warrant.
Well why I compared the pressen USA Whit the old Hollywood USSR is also becouse of the way the police behaves http://glassbeadcollective.blip.tv/file/784711/
.
And well beside that, then what you hear of laws and rules that the US is getting to "protect the citizens" then.
.Yes I think I can compar the USSR and the US..... Or maby you are a little rigth, the USSR was better.
.
And no my govement are not doing that.
It sound like some FUD that the US govement are telling you, to justefi why the US have to have that kind of rules/laws
Also, don't be convinced by that user comment read in the video: "I'll Fedex my laptop. They can pry my data form my cold dead hands," or whatever. All items entering the country are subject to border searches, whether through the airport in your luggage or in a Fedex package.
And that's the other trick. Sure, if it isn't going over the border, then it isn't an issue.
But the FAA often tells FedEx and other carriers to fly over international waters, or over Canada. This is standard procedure.
Doing so automatically permits the government to inspect you or your packages without a warrant.
This affects not only Americans but those wishing to travel to the country for business or pleasure. I changed my decision to travel to the USA and instead chose an alternate destination for my vacation due to the insane search and seizure practice currently being done by American boarder agents. Other examples of those it will affect are Doctors that no longer want to go to a convention due to concern over doctor/patient private information being copied by boarder agents, lawyers having their clients information copied, families no longer feeling safe as they can't risk losing their cellphone for an unknown amount of time while traveling, businesses no longer able to do business as usual due to stringent search policies, musicians unable to travel due risk losing vital equipment such as their laptop, film industry unable to take the chance of losing their iPhone/Blackberry/etc while traveling to a film location in the USA, news reporters suddenly losing their cellphones/laptops/etc in the interest of National security. In Canada we used to joke how there are so many law enforcement agencies in the USA where as here in Canada we have one department for each level of law enforcement (ie: CSIS, RCMP, Provincial Police and city police). Now the USA is seen as a sad case where laws that once helped to offer some protection to travelers and citizens are simply ignored. Law Enforcement and Boarder Control agencies keep pushing a little more each year to take peoples rights away. Will the courts wake up to what's actually going on before all rights are lost?
Who the FU*K are they to tell me what i can and what i can't have on my personal device????? and how the heck do you link terrorism to a phone or a freggin personal media player, i think they're going to far now and we should be really careful when electing Officials Next time, next thing you know will be worst than the cuban regime
Well, another point terrorists, if the attacks on 11th Sep were actually committed by them, otherwise point for US government. Whoever committed the attacks, managed to get US where they wanted. Old US are losing badly in war against terrorism/new US.
yeah.....so i'm going to treavel pretty soon to europe and i just got a new ipod and i'm planning to take it with me but i don't have any bought music i mean from itunes....i just have music downloaded form youtube and stuff.do you guys think that there is going to be problem if my ipod is being taken and they find those files.should i download all my songs from itunes.give me some ideas.thnx in advance
yeah.....so i'm going to treavel pretty soon to europe and i just got a new ipod and i'm planning to take it with me but i don't have any bought music i mean from itunes....i just have music downloaded form youtube and stuff.do you guys think that there is going to be problem if my ipod is being taken and they find those files.should i download all my songs from itunes.give me some ideas.thnx in advance
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Comments
This is total crap! I know we
This is total crap! I know we currently have the threat of terrorism at our doorstep, but this is taking it way too seriously. If there are no specifics as to how long they can hold this stuff, they should at least have a legitimate cause as to what they can do. Plus, leaving it in the power of border agents and TSA employees really screws things up. How can a border cop or a TSA employee understand what is copyrighted or not - let along know if you are a terrorist or a child pornographer? They should at least have limits as to what they can do - or be briefed to notice any signs of suspicious activity and/or who is suspected.
Americans should definitely stand up and fight against the abhoring piece of legislature!
I guess I'll be keeping my
I guess I'll be keeping my tourism dollars at home in Canada.
Of course, I'll still have to go there for business occasionally, which is when it would be REALLY inconvenient to lose my electronics.
Not TSA
I find it interesting that any time news is presented about this, they like to show photos of people going through security screenings before getting ona plane. These searches are NOT legal at that point. This only has to do with crossing international borders.
The practice of searching belongings at borders has been around forever. If you have a briefcase, they can read every piece of information in it at a border, that's nothing new. Up until now, the searches have only been allowed to stop child porn and the like, not copyright infringements, so that part would be new, if ACTA is ratified.
This isn't all a US thing to crush civil liberties. The international community is working together on a treaty to enforce IP laws, so that would probably affect entries into Canada too.
Also, don't be convinced by that user comment read in the video: "I'll Fedex my laptop. They can pry my data form my cold dead hands," or whatever. All items entering the country are subject to border searches, whether through the airport in your luggage or in a Fedex package.
Finally, I agree that the ability to confiscate and copy everything is going too far. Right now, this power is relegated to a gray zone of US law. If they are going to be intruding upon our computers to such a great degree, there should at the very minimum be posted laws, so we know what we can do to avoid these problems.
You need to re-read the
You need to re-read the Constitution and pay particular attention to the Fourth Amendment. You are wrong to state that border agents already have the right to read the contents of your briefcase, they don't. Nor do they have the right to seize, copy, and retain private information on your lap top indefinitely.
You need to reread your
You need to reread your Constitution. The government cannot conduct illegal searches and seizures, but the government has plenary power to regulate international commerce. This is done under a customs rule, where "The government's interest of security is at its peak." (or something like that) Find me one instance where the constitutional ban on unreasonable searches and seizures has changed the actions of government agents with people entering the border. Here's one: They can't do invasive cavity searches for drugs without a little suspicion. Yes, they only need a little. This might shock you: government agents can disassemble your gas tank without any suspicion as you drive in form Mexico. Nothing says they can't.
For better or worse, at the border, government agents can do anything they want, and ALWAYS have been able to. The Fourth doesn't apply there. They DO have the right to seize, copy, and retain information on your laptop.
The reason to fear the new regulations, is that with ACTA, they likely will be seeking pirated music on laptops and charging you with a crime after confiscating your electronics. Up until now, they haven't been looking for that material in their searches, they've been looking for terrorists and child pornographers. When they start analyzing every file on your drive for whether it was legally downloaded or not, then I think we've got a real problem. Will I have to carry proof that every song on my iPhone was ripped from a CD or downloaded from iTunes? That would negate the convenience of the device entirely.
I'm not defending this, I'm just saying it really isn't new, and rambling about it being unconstitutional is a waste of time, as is comparing it to TSA searches before you get on an airplane.
Even conservative justices
Even conservative justices don't argue that the commerce clause overrides enumerated rights-in this case the 4th and 5th amendments. You say you don't support it but are happy to bend over for it, which is pretty un-American.
Absurd !!! Get real !!!
This is ridiculous, if you're a business traveler, you must carry a laptop, then, without any reason, they take your laptop away with private informations on it.
Confidential informations
Your falmily photos, private photos with your wife etc...
This is absurd !
They go too far with this "anti terrorism" bla bla bla...
My $2000 macbook pro, they take your property away from you !
So, you ca't send e-mails, post photos to a family blog...
You vacation in the US begins badly !
How can they possibly know what is copyrighted or not?
If I have 25 MP3 albens on my hard drive, so what?
How can you prove the music is ripped from your CDs or downloaded from the Internet???
Let's do the same with Americans coming to Europe, what do you think ?
Come on !!!
I'm very angry with this !
I love the US very much but they exagerate a lot, don't you think?
Back in mid-June, there were
Back in mid-June, there were headlines on the front page of the Vancouver Sun, like: "Is Your iPod Breaking The LAW?", continuing on into articles about border searches of laptops, hard drives, portable music players, etc.
There seemed to be more emphasis on piracy than on any terroristical threats. I'm surprised that this wave of press on this border issue isn't looking at the Music & Film Industries' potential influence on this matter.
Is the Vancouver Sun the same
Is the Vancouver Sun the same family as the Toronto Sun and the Calgary Sun?
Seriously, it's bird cage liner, who cares what they have to say about any topic?
You know what the Sun is good for: they can make a shocking headline out of anything, which they put in big block letters on the front page, and below it they have a brightly coloured picture from a completely unrelated story, and usually, the juxtaposition of headline and picture is funny.
But you can play Sun Cover Story mix-n-match without taking it out of the newspaper box.
Don't you people realize that
Don't you people realize that there are (Insert pluralized name of religion here) that want to take over the United States, that terrorists from (Name of religion)-led countries seek to rape your daughters and eat your pets? America is at war with (Insert pluralized name of religion here) and none of us are safe until every (Name of religion here) is either (locked up) (deported) (micro-chipped) (Choose One). This is serious stuff, folks, and the confiscation of your iPod is a small price to pay for freedom and the preservation of the great world view held by (Name of politician running for President).
People in the U.S. need to awaken and Rise Up
I believe the people in the U.S. need to get some courage to stand up to these idiots in our government who are making these laws and vote them out of office. I personally do not want to live in a society where the data from my entire life is copied and stored by the US government to sift through at their leisure. Imagine if you are in business and have all your confidential business trade secrets, contacts, emails on your laptop and Homeland security decides to pull you out of line and copy the contents of your entire hard drive to their data bank.
People in the US need to stop living in fear and giving up all their rights because of a fear of terrorism. Who wants to live in a police state?
This will kill some of the
This will kill some of the buissness deals from other contrys.
.
Company A is not from the US. but will make a deal whit Company B from the US
.
Company A will not travel to the US whit it's buisness plans, becouse of the change that the govement migth wan't to hold on to there data for some time while they are copying it to there server
.
Company B can effort/have the people to travle all over the world, when a nother buiness migth wan't to make buiness whit them
.Or Company A will not allow Company B to take date whit them back to the US. in fear that the govement wan't to copy the data.
.
.
So Company A and B will not do buiness.
Well good thing that USA do not have economy problems
It sucks but it's not just the U.S.
The reason people are outraged is because this sort of thing isn't supposed to happen in the U.S.
In other parts of the world, it's the norm. So those of you from other countries who say "We should do it to them!" I have news for you: your governments already are.
I agree that this policy is wrong and unconstitutional; but to call the U.S. a "police state" because of it is every bit as wrong as the policy itself.
And comparing the current U.S to the Soviet Union? Hmmm... this policy affects those entering the United States from other countries, which they can do fairly freely, or returning citizens. Hmmm... I don't recall a lot of tourism and business travel to the Soviet Union. And many of those who left didn't want to return, with thousands who had the opportunity defecting to the U.S.
Yes, we need to stand up to this policy. Search it? fine. Nobody made me leave the country, and nobody made those coming to the U.S. do it. It's a personal choice, and they've long had the right to search you or your belongings when you come into the country. A laptop is just another container. However, copying the data or confiscating the item for an unspecified period of time is ridiculous.
But, please, comparing the U.S., even with policies to places like the Soviet Union or China is absurd.
Change the focus: Spain has
Change the focus: Spain has dealt with real terrorists for 50 years, and you still can fly without having your shoes x-rayed. That was the first step in the US to see how compliant and complacent the populace is, then comes no gels or liquids, etc. This is the next step. No, we're not a police state yet, but the state is testing and pushing the limits until folks like you say, "Sure, a full cavity search is just fine" and "random household 'reviews' by DHS ensure our security." This is totalitarianism not by revolution but by incrementalism, and you buy into it. Disgusting.
Ignoring the facts...
You seem to ignore the fact that this will not impact most U.S. citizens. Only about a quarter of the U.S. populace has a passport at any given time. This only affects people coming into the country, as it is a border search. This has nothing to do with security searches at airports where they make you take your shoes off or take away your precious hair gel. This is a customs search for people entering the country, where the government has ALWAYS been able to search anything and everything they want, as much as they want. Since most U.S. citizens don't leave the country this will never affect them. It will mostly affect Canadians, and I say good, because I've always distrusted their beady little eyes...
Yes, classic argument. It
Yes, classic argument. It doesn't affect me, so it doesn't matter. Until it does, then we'll hear you piss and moan about your rights, the Constitution, the founding fathers, etc. etc. ad nauseam.
Injustice anywhere threatens justice everywhere. This law has nothing to do with terrorism. It's the government using a powerful loophole to kowtow to corporations. It starts at the border and it'll end inside your home, without a warrant.
Well why I compared the
Well why I compared the pressen USA Whit the old Hollywood USSR is also becouse of the way the police behaves
http://glassbeadcollective.blip.tv/file/784711/
.
And well beside that, then what you hear of laws and rules that the US is getting to "protect the citizens" then.
.Yes I think I can compar the USSR and the US..... Or maby you are a little rigth, the USSR was better.
.
And no my govement are not doing that.
It sound like some FUD that the US govement are telling you, to justefi why the US have to have that kind of rules/laws
Also, don't be convinced by
Also, don't be convinced by that user comment read in the video: "I'll Fedex my laptop. They can pry my data form my cold dead hands," or whatever. All items entering the country are subject to border searches, whether through the airport in your luggage or in a Fedex package.
And that's the other trick. Sure, if it isn't going over the border, then it isn't an issue.
But the FAA often tells FedEx and other carriers to fly over international waters, or over Canada. This is standard procedure.
Doing so automatically permits the government to inspect you or your packages without a warrant.
Rights being taken away one at a time.
This affects not only Americans but those wishing to travel to the country for business or pleasure. I changed my decision to travel to the USA and instead chose an alternate destination for my vacation due to the insane search and seizure practice currently being done by American boarder agents. Other examples of those it will affect are Doctors that no longer want to go to a convention due to concern over doctor/patient private information being copied by boarder agents, lawyers having their clients information copied, families no longer feeling safe as they can't risk losing their cellphone for an unknown amount of time while traveling, businesses no longer able to do business as usual due to stringent search policies, musicians unable to travel due risk losing vital equipment such as their laptop, film industry unable to take the chance of losing their iPhone/Blackberry/etc while traveling to a film location in the USA, news reporters suddenly losing their cellphones/laptops/etc in the interest of National security. In Canada we used to joke how there are so many law enforcement agencies in the USA where as here in Canada we have one department for each level of law enforcement (ie: CSIS, RCMP, Provincial Police and city police). Now the USA is seen as a sad case where laws that once helped to offer some protection to travelers and citizens are simply ignored. Law Enforcement and Boarder Control agencies keep pushing a little more each year to take peoples rights away. Will the courts wake up to what's actually going on before all rights are lost?
Sounds like it's time for a
Sounds like it's time for a protest.
Picture says it all
Picture says it all :-)
http://freespeech.vo.llnwd.net/o25/pub/images/cavity.jpg#html
Dumb question
Would I get around this by just encrypting my data, or would they go to the trouble of breaking it?
Who the FU*K are they to tell
Who the FU*K are they to tell me what i can and what i can't have on my personal device????? and how the heck do you link terrorism to a phone or a freggin personal media player, i think they're going to far now and we should be really careful when electing Officials Next time, next thing you know will be worst than the cuban regime
Well, another point
Well, another point terrorists, if the attacks on 11th Sep were actually committed by them, otherwise point for US government. Whoever committed the attacks, managed to get US where they wanted. Old US are losing badly in war against terrorism/new US.
yeah.....so i'm going to
yeah.....so i'm going to treavel pretty soon to europe and i just got a new ipod and i'm planning to take it with me but i don't have any bought music i mean from itunes....i just have music downloaded form youtube and stuff.do you guys think that there is going to be problem if my ipod is being taken and they find those files.should i download all my songs from itunes.give me some ideas.thnx in advance
yeah.....so i'm going to
yeah.....so i'm going to treavel pretty soon to europe and i just got a new ipod and i'm planning to take it with me but i don't have any bought music i mean from itunes....i just have music downloaded form youtube and stuff.do you guys think that there is going to be problem if my ipod is being taken and they find those files.should i download all my songs from itunes.give me some ideas.thnx in advance