Phil Schiller's response to Ninjawords dictionary word censorship
Daring Fireball got an email beatdown today from Phil Schiller about the controversy surrounding Apple's decision to "censor" Ninjawords, a dictionary app for the iPhone. It turns out that most of Daring Fireball's argument yesterday was just wrong.
Let me start with the most important points - Apple did not censor the content in this developer’s application and Apple did not reject this developer’s application for including references to common swear words. You accused Apple of both in your story and the fact is that we did neither. Ninjawords is an application which uses content from the Wiktionary.org online wiki-based dictionary to provide a nice fast dictionary application on the web and on the iPhone. Contrary to what you reported, the Ninjawords application was not rejected in the App Store review process for including common “swear” words. In fact anyone can easily see that Apple has previously approved other dictionary applications in the App Store that include all of the “swear” words that you gave as examples in your story.
Wiktionary, the source of of Ninja Words definitions, contains huge amounts of profanity, even if it isn't the seven words you can't say on TV. While Ninjawords may have did a search and destroy on those 7 words in the database, many "Urban Dictionary-type" definitions still exist.
The issue that the App Store reviewers did find with the Ninjawords application is that it provided access to other more vulgar terms than those found in traditional and common dictionaries, words that many reasonable people might find upsetting or objectionable. A quick search on Wiktionary.org easily turns up a number of offensive “urban slang” terms that you won’t find in popular dictionaries such as one that you referenced, the New Oxford American Dictionary included in Mac OS X. Apple rejected the initial submission of Ninjawords for this reason, provided the Ninjawords developer with information about some of the vulgar terms, and suggested to the developer that they resubmit the application for approval once parental controls were implemented on the iPhone.
The Ninjawords developer then decided to filter some offensive terms in the Ninjawords application and resubmit it for approval for distribution in the App Store before parental controls were implemented. Apple did not ask the developer to censor any content in Ninjawords, the developer decided to do that themselves in order to get to market faster. Even though the developer chose to censor some terms, there still remained enough vulgar terms that it required a parental control rating of 17+.
You are correct that the Ninjawords application should not have needed to be censored while also receiving a 17+ rating, but that was a result of the developers’ actions, not Apple’s. I believe that the Apple app review team’s original recommendation to the developer to submit the Ninjawords application, without censoring it, to the App Store once parental controls was implemented would have been the best course of action for all; Wiktionary.org is an open, ever-changing resource and filtering the content does not seem reasonable or necessary.
Apple was right to reject it or ask for a 17+ rating on the app. The author could clean it up or get put into a 17+ section.
The problem is they got both due to poor timing. They were submitting at the time when the 17+ App Store was just being populated. The developer wanted to get the app in the store so they voluntarily censored their app. Although the app uses a static version of the Wictionary which may have removed some profanity, there is a lot of other implicit profanity in Wictionary that may not contain any "bad words" but still isn't something a 10-year old should be reading. They, like many other dictionaries, got a 17+ rating.
Gruber, pictured above at a WWDC, decided, for whatever reason to back up the developers of this particular app without researching exactly what the real issue was.
Although the App Store has made and continues to make baffling decisions on accepting and rejecting apps, we should exercise caution when scrutinizing them.
Schiller ended with this:
Apple's goals remain aligned with customers and developers -- to create an innovative applications platform on the iPhone and iPod touch and to assist many developers in making as much great software as possible for the iPhone App Store. While we may not always be perfect in our execution of that goal, our efforts are always made with the best intentions, and if we err we intend to learn and quickly improve.
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Comments (27)
How is the picture related to the article? Is that John Gruber? How are we supposed to know?
It is Mr. Gruber. Who'd you think it was? Ron Jeremy? Oh, sorry
HAHAHAHAHA...I actually did!
"How is the picture related to the article? Is that John Gruber? How are we supposed to know?"
By reading the article: "Gruber, pictured above at a WWDC..."
That attribution was added after the initial comment. Probably in response to...
Finally someone giving Gruber some criticism. He's been talking out of his ass on App store Bullshit for months. Nice job Phil.
Gruber is a dump of careless pigshit
Gruber can have some good insight - at times - but his problem, like many with Blogs, is they have no Editor and Chief to reign them in. Thus, their egos and comments tend to become more and more flippant and reckless.
This is exactly the case with John. His attitude has taken his lead, instead of his smarts reigning it in.
A successful blogger would be wise to have someone overseeing their writing. It would make for a much more professional approach. But alas, the "I'm a blogger, I say whatever I want!" rules the day, and thus we get guys like Gruber spouting off and losing credibility within minutes.
"Gruber can have some good insight - at times - but his problem, like many with Blogs, is they have no Editor and Chief to reign them in."
I think you mean "...they have no Editor in Chief to rein them in". But what would I know, I'm just a blogger with no editor, spouting off. Unlike, presumably, you.
I hate it when people confuse blogs with news journalism - they are weB LOGS. By the very nature of a blog it is the opinion and/or journal of the blogger. A blog is not the press. I was at a presentation one time and mentioned that I had a small blog and the presenter treated me different the rest of the meeting - and not in a good way - because I was "the press". I was NOT the press and what I write in my blog is not news. It's opinions and accounts of things that I've done or have happened to me. Very different - because I'm not bound to have any journalistic integrity, ethics or standards. Not because I don't have integrity, but because I have no established journalistic credibility.
I just think it's silly to expect a blog to have an editor in chief, to 'report' on anything other than conjecture, or to have any code of ethics. But I guess people just tend to believe what they read.
Except that, if you bothered to read Gruber's blog, you'd see that he very clearly is one of those people mistaking his blog for journalism.
sounds like someone i don't want to read.
For some reason a lot of people under the guise of "free speech" feel compelled to spew their garbage onto the public while displaying gross ignorance. They should get together with their other smut-mouths, stay indoors & look at all of their foul bumper stickers & listen to their foul language. Obviously they have no conception that most people are offended by this crap or, as is more likely, they really don't give a rip.
False. I care very much about content being appropriately labeled. LABELED.
Content that is removed, denied, or censored, as a result of Phil Schiller's view on "Reasonable" is absolutely, positively without debate, unacceptable.
"positively without debate", eh? What a mighty truth you've constructed from a strawman argument. When someone says this kind of thing, what they think they're saying is that there isn't another valid view to be considered. What they're REALLY saying is that they weren't smart enough or reasonable enough to have seen that view.
There ARE things in life I'd agree can be condemned "positively without debate". This isn't one of them. And it can't be MADE into one of them simply be making a cartoonish misstatement of the process taking place or the motivations behind it -- the many bejewelled facets of which doubtless reflect the spittle on your chin most prettily.
Good job Phil.
And where did you get this "scoop," 9to5Mac? Oh, from Gruber's site itself. He posted it admitting he was wrong. Otherwise you would never know it existed. But sure, continue defending Apple at all costs. They know best.
you are an IDIOT!!!
Seems like Mr. Schiller was using this as an opportunity to dispel some of the flak they're getting over the App Store approval process; Google Voice, etc.
Though some here might disagree, Apple values Gruber's blog enough to read it and know that it influences people. Keep your reactions in mind the next time Gruber gives a scoop.
That story had been floating round the internet for a few days now. I really doubt Schiller reads that blog, or this blog for that matter. The story was probably read by an Apple Employee on Engadget (as an example of a more established and 'popular' blog) and passed onto him.
I read the original piece and the follow-up. Gruber isn't shy about his opinions, but the first post was mostly an airing of NinjaWords' concerns, and certainly the story as they told it was troubling.
If there's a specific fault to assign to Gruber here, it's that he didn't get Apple's reaction first, but let's be real - all he would have gotten if he'd inquired would have been a PR person saying that App Store is vetted carefully and that the same thing is done for everyone. That wouldn't have changed his story.
And you do have to give Gruber credit for posting Schiller's response and being willing to admit that what he posted in the first place was wrong. There are plenty of bloggers out there who would insist that Schiller was just spinning.
did you actually write "may have did" in that story?
you may have some good points, but that's when i quit reading.
I don't think Phil is being entirely truthful, as the developer claims the Apple reviewer specifically noted several 'common' swear words as being the reason why the app was rejected, not so-called 'urban slang'.
Sorry, I'm not understanding the shots taken at Daring Fireball. It doesn't matter if you consider it a blog or not; as a publication, it is, in my view, one of the most insightful commentaries available for the Mac, iPhone, Apple Inc., etc..
Gruber is very much keyed in on concerns developers are having with the iPhone and App Store, and I think Schiller was wise to respond as he saw fit.
Question: how many times has 9to5mac.com received a similar detailed response from Phil Schiller? The fact he responded to John's writing should demonstrate the (perceived) influence Daring Fireball has on the community.
Continued response and some level of transparency from Apple would of course be welcomed, let us hope (perhaps foolishly) this is the first step.
I supported Gruber when he first took the leap. bought the t-shirts, etc. He still has some good insights on design, but his naive liberal rants convinced me to drop my support. When he expressed his disdain for the second amendment the bookmark to daring fireball disappeared from my browsers and the t-shirts went into the car wash rag pile. The man needs an editor. He's become a victim of his own ego.
I think it's very funny to see people who tout the 1st amendment as something that's perfect and unquestionable, part of the Constitution!, infinitely elastic and able to be stretched to cover any circumstance, no matter bizarrely inappropriate.... and those same people dismiss the 2nd amendment as an anachronism to be abandoned.
Safari also allows Access to inappropriate content? Is rated 17+?