Yet more info on why Apple's dissing Adobe
Looks like everyone has a few reservations on the post-Warnock/Chizen Adobe, as a few more details concerning Apple CEO Steve Jobs’ feelings about the creative software company have seen the light of day, thanks to our French connection.
Jobs slammed Adobe as ‘Lazy’, telling Apple staffers this during a town hall meeting last week. Sure, Adobe has denied this. Now HardMac cites an Apple exec who has given a few choice cuts as to the root of Apple’s disappointment with Photoshop company.
"Like Microsoft, Adobe has become a stodgy and conservative company, they've lost their focus - they are stuck in the middle,” Jobs told Apple staff.
Hardmac then helpfully lists a few complaints:
“Adobe completely missed the transition to Cocoa, and tried to extend the use of Carbon, causing problems for both users and Apple. They have only now started to work within the programming environment, however, the first beta of the new Creative Suite 5 remain incomplete and unstable.
“Adobe is reported to be very slow to react when Apple sends them bug reports, especially about Flash. Apple sent them description of 410 bugs, identified as important for Flash on Mac OS X, but Adobe has only fixed 25 of them so far.
Jobs has also slammed Flash for being unstable, that it wasn’t originally included on iPhone not out of choice but because what Adobe delivered just didn’t make the grade (as he said at the time).
HardMac: “Apple is also upset about Adobe Software Activation, their anti-piracy protection. This system forces CS users to validate their license online. In order to prevent any bypassing by software-based debuggers, the ASA shunts the system in order to directly access the deepest layer of the CPU and the RAM, without considering the protection of such components built into Mac OS X. As a consequence it would increase the risk of crash and fragmentation, making Mac OS X unable to manage or better control them. So, every time the ASA is modified or updated as it has already been hacked a certain number of times, Adobe asks Apple to take measures on its system to let the ASA work efficiently, without creating too much instability.”
We’ve noticed this too - how inefficient and time-wasting Adobe upgrades are on a Mac. To the extent at least one 9to5Mac writer keeps their creative apps on a second computer, because they claim it ‘bugs out’ their primary machine. (This is anecdotal).
HardMac again, “Last but not least, Apple thinks that the user interface of current Adobe applications is now getting too old, and did not move to a more user friendly version; and finally the price of the Creative Suite are just too high according to Apple's ranking.”
We’d agree about price. And we have heard reports of Adobe leaning on major publishers to ensure criticism of its prices is not too strenuously made, particularly its extremely exploitative European prices.
HardMac then speculates Apple may in future plan to use some of the many creative elements inside its software to deliver more Mac-native creative applications capable of doing the work of Adobe’s creative packages.
Meanwhile, Adobe has published a video showing how to create an iPhone application in Flash, compiling it to run on the Apple device.
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Comments (61)
Having reported a Flash Player crash to them when trying to develop an enterprise web client using Flex, I can confirm that they are incredibly slow to respond and unwilling to provide hot fixes. Their communication is terrible as well.
In other words, fuck Adobe!
Spend $3,000 for software and only use 15% of its capabilities.
I hope Adobe dies! Apple needs to make a creative design suite to shut Adobe down. Shove that Apple up Adobe's ass, as it were...
Adobe is absolutely terrible. I couldn't agree more about every single point that was made. I can't stand having to use Adobe software on my main machine and I as well have had to resort to having a backup machine using all my Adobe software.
And you know whats really sad is that among the masses(aka the idiots) Apple is the one getting all the blame for not having flash on the iPhone/iPad, when people really should be blaming Adobe for not being able to write anything thats halfway decent. People shouldn't be pointing the finger at Apple but at Adobe, and should really be pressuring Adobe to get their act together.
adobe sucks so does mac. if it doesnt work im sure one of you whiney inteligent nerds could become a Bill Gates and wait for it make something that does work. For the purpose you need it too. im sure you all work in graphic arts design etc.
you gotta be shittin me you knobs are still years i mean YEARS are still crying. general public dont need your mac nor have a use for one nor would even try and turn the piece of apple core on, and it is only apple folks that cry for the most part.so just hush the fuck up already WWAAAAWAAAAAAWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA jesus you folks are worse than a 90 year old complaining their depends is wet or soiled doh i cant remember the al
My God, you're an imbecile!
Steve Jobs' tirade against Adobe is completely ineffectual. He can't hire or fire anyone, he can't set policy for Adobe or strategic goals.
... LOL, you're funny. It's like saying an automobile company that asks a gas pedal supplier to conform to their standards, but the gas pedal supplier does not. and the automobile manufacturer then changes the supplier.
... Of course Apple can't 'set policy' at Adobe, but they can sure as hell not use them!!!! (just as Toyota can change suppliers of gas pedals if the supplier can't meet expectations)
oh, the things that make you go... hmmmm!!!
Don't you get it. With out Adobe CS there will be mass migration to PC. Mac creatives need PS, Illustrator, InDesign, AE etc. etc.
Where have you been since 2005? 'Mac Creatives' no longer make up the bulk of the Mac community. Sure they're a vocal minority, but they are a real minority these days… These days everyone from executives to housewives are choosing Macs for reasons other than overpriced, buggy, and pro-only Adobe CS.
Let's not forget, we're only talking about the iPhone and iPad here. Steve lets us have Flash and any other Adobe software on our Macs - he even helps us put Windows on there by giving us Boot Camp - so let's get some perspective.
Come again? Jobs hasn't accomplished anything except making himself look foolish and pissing off a few Adobe execs. Nothing Jobs has said convinces me that he wants to mend bridges and work with Adobe. If Adobe slows or cancels further development of its products for Macs a lot of unhappy people will have Jobs to thank for it.
Mend bridges with Adobe? Apple has shown on several occasions that they are willing to step in and create innovative tools and applications where there is a deficiency.
Adobe will do well to consider this as a warning.There are software such as Pixelmator (much better user interface) which are very close to being a replacement for Photoshop. Pixelmator costs $59. Photoshop $699. Think about it, Adobe's competitor sells for what you'd have to pay to cover the cost of tax on their product.
If Apple can easily buy (or simply help) companies like Pixelmator Team, Onmigroup, or Tweakersoft, touch up their products a little and market the hell out of them.
I don't know how Adobe justifies prices they charge for their software considering the little effort they have been putting into them over the last decade. Companies that get into those kinds of practices usually don't last very long as soon as a viable alternative comes to market. Apple almost went out of business for the same nonsense until Jobs came back and put some passion and focus back into the company.
Let see if I can understand the rationale behind your defense of Adobe. Adobe makes crappy products, ignores complaints from partners and customers, and then has the gall to blame them for refusing to use Adobe crappy products. What rubbished product policy and strategic goals! You are right on one thing though - Jobs shouldn't bother to change them, he should just junk the crappy products.
quote:
"Steve Jobs' tirade against Adobe is completely ineffectual. He can't hire or fire anyone, he can't set policy for Adobe or strategic goals."
He can stir the media, take off users (via iPhone/iPod/iPad)...
The same thing that lots of sites/bloggers try to do with Apple.
The media have as much control over Adobe as Jobs. Big whoop. A bunch of people talking and not doing - that's really helpful, huh?
Bloggers, and the vast majority being anonymous, share their thoughts about Apple and Apple products knowing full well that little or nothing that they write has an impact in Cupertino. Jobs tosses rationality out the window and proceeds to lecture and chastise another independent company. The difference is that the bloggers tacitly concede their published thoughts are unlikely to change corporate policy and strategy, and Jobs' doesn't. Jobs is both impotent and arrogant. Jobs confirms what everyone knew or suspected - the man is the epitome of hubris. Adobe execs were laughing all the way to the bank.
Have you even Use adobe products in the last 4 versions?
I have been using Photoshop and to a lesser extent Illustrator since 1989.
For the all the great improvements, and powerful thing they do, they are also Buggy, Bloated and unfocused.
The Ui is showing its age, and there are times that photoshop grinds even the most powerful computer (Mac or PC) to a stand still. Adobe is keeps borrowing features form one program and adding them to another. "Feature" creep is rampant.
Creative suite has become the "Microsoft Office" of Graphics programs. I don't mean that as a compliment.
Adobe is lazy in they fact the work from one buggy and bloated code base and force it to run on both Mac and Windows. Adobe refuses to go back and rewrite the legacy code left over from more the 10 years ago.
Adobe in my opinion started to tank when they announced the Windows versions of their programs. Since then they have focused more in getting and keeping the Windows version stable and usable. In turn making Apple users second class citizens.
Jobs is impotent? Adobe is laughing to the bank? What planet do you live on?
Jobs is putting the screws to them and they know they'd better take him seriously or else they'll find Apple making competing products and/or flash starts going down the drain (as well as Adobe stock price) and Apple swoops in to buy them. Frankly, I would love for Apple to build their own products. The graphics community could easily wait 2 years since the last couple of upgrades to Adobe's products has hardly been groundbreaking. I would especially love to see an javascript-based or webkit-based development tool that blows flash off the earth.
Face it, Adobe has become the new Quark - arrogant, lazy and overpriced. I loved it when I started to see Quark crumble and with Adobe's recent track record, they'll have the same fate.
Simple anwser. Apple buy Adobe!
I strongly second that motion.
I know, right? Someone said the Adobe execs were laughing all the way to the bank; I'm curious to know how many times over Apple could buy them right now. If they could walk into Dell's lobby and walk out with the title, I doubt they'd have much trouble with Adobe.
Right now Adobe is still too expensive. After Flash went down the drain and everybody is selling Adobe stock they might buy. The Time will come, but not right now.
And close the adobe company ? :P
Stop flash now! :P
I hope Apple address this part of the creative market soon and develop their own answer to the creative suite of apps. Logic, Final Cut and Aperture are incredible pieces of software and it shows Apple have the skill and budget to create a new generation of Photoshop, Illustrator and Dreamweaver equivalent apps, all native to Apple products.
If they priced them very competitively they could turn the entire Adobe design monopoly on its head. Education is embracing Apple computer more than ever, if they provide a cheaper and more powerful alternative the CS, then they will wipe out the Adobe franchise is just a few years as the new young professionals grow up using Apple software.
MAKE IT HAPPEN APPLE!
Yes. I would love for Apple to make their own CS, but it would need to be Final Cut Pro quality Apple software, not iLife/iWork quality - they are far too limited and buggy. I can make a decent looking document in Pages or movie in iMovie, but my imagination is often limited to its abilities (or workarounds which sometimes require Adobe CS).
I can definitely see the comparison between Adobe and Microsoft. They don't really innovate any more. They just sit on their monopoly and expect that everyone will be happy because they are the only choice. There are some alternatives, but they aren't really even as good as Adobe CS. The first sign that Adobe no longer cared was when CS came out with an installer called 'setup' and a very Windows-like installation procedure. Then, as the article says, the fact that they are still using Carbon is 'lazy' in my opinion as well. Updates to CS usually don't give many benefits to the user. In fact, I'd say the difference between CS1 and CS4 is more on par with a single upgrade of most software. Sure, they add a few features, but they don't really innovate much - it's more like features that should have been there all along or that most people will rarely use (though perhaps nice when you do). InDesign CS4 is fundamentally the same as PageMaker (although CS4 is obviously superior by age alone). I found an old version of Illustrator 8 (I think, or lower) on an old Quadra running OS 8.5 a while back and played with it for a few minutes to find that it really didn't feel that much different on a basic level. However, I will say that as a graphic artist, I use CS more than any other software and it is probably the only software that can get my job done efficiently. All the same, I would be very interested in an alternative.
I've been saying this for years. I no longer use Adobe products at all.
If there only was a apple-ish alternative to photoshop and InDesign - with speed, multitouch and easy GUI...
If there only was a apple-ish alternative to photoshop and InDesign - with speed, multitouch and easy GUI...
It would take apple YEARS to create there alternative to CS.
Well...there is actually an alternative to photoshop which is call Pixelmator....www.pixelmator.com
Sorry, that is not an alternative to Photoshop... but dream on ok.
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