One last thought on ARM...AppleTV

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I've become over-fascinated about ARM's roadmap since investigating a post I did for Computerworld over the weekend.  To me, it makes just a little too much sense that these chips will rise up the ranks of Apple's products over the next few years.  For instance, take a look at TI's 600MHz OMAP3440 ARM processor.  (see full size here

This isn't a "roadmap" processor.  It currently sits in Archos PMPs and Open Pandora and does some amazing things at 600MHz. 

What's coming out in 2009 will blow this away.  Expect 1.6 GHz ARM Cortex Processors that are full motherboards on the chip.  Power in, ports out, no mobo necessary.   Pretty insane graphics too.  We aren't talking PS3 type graphics but they will give a Wii a run for its money.

See all of those functions up there?  HDMI out?  Built-in audio and video decoders?  PATA (and soon SATA)?  This wouldn't be hard to turn into the next Apple TV.  Or, better yet, a set top gaming device (with AppleTV functionality) and access to the App Store.  Games, Web (gasp) TV, email, and all of those really cool iPhone apps ported to the TV. 

How big would this device have to be? 

Well, most of the functionality of the device could rely on the ARM SoC.  32Gb of Flash storage is about $50 on the street (Apple gets it cheapest).  You are looking at something the size of an Airport Express to give it more functionality than the current AppleTV.  Apple could go big an include a full sized 1.5Tb HDD.  Then it would obviously grow to the size of a Time Capsule. Both Airport Express and Time Capsule already use ARMs as their processor.

But it can do so much more than what current game consoles can do.  Besides the Apps Store, the device could be a video conferencing machine with just small camera attachment.  It could be a slideshow presentation device.  Or a media server.  It could be the home router and backup device.  The list goes on and on.

How much would this cost?  Next to nothing in hardware.  ARM chips go for a fraction of Intel chips.  They are also incredibly energy efficient.  You'd have some storage and build costs but the rest is just software which Apple has already done most of the development on.  

Oh, and there is the matter of PA Semi?  What have they been up to since being acquired by Apple?  ARM chips.  ARM chips.  ARM chips.

I'll leave you with a video of an iPhone with *slow* ARM processor doing TV out.  Is it that hard to imagine an ARM AppleTV?

Comments (18)

kewl, I cant wait to see what comes out of this. Could this mean a far more battery efficient and smaller iphone?
-randomtruth
randomtruthsblog.synthasite.com

The is surely the single best ARM/Apple post I've ever seen. Good to see someone being sensible about it.

Wow! This would make the Apple TV into something I would like to buy. Imagine if you could use your iPhone/ iPod Touch as a remote control and Wii mote like device.

I have one word:

eMate

P.

just as a point of interest, the time capsule and airport extreme already use ARM chips, so its not a massive leap for apple :)

Apple said that HD content would require a clock speed of 2.0Ghz. Didn't they? Does this apply to apple tv?

It's true that using Intel's or any other processor a clock speed of around 2GHz is required to decode H.264 video at HD resolution, but Apple has been working hard to do a lot of traditional processor work (both input and output) in the graphics chips. I've read the new MacBooks and MacBook Pros hardly use the processor at all when decoding H.264 video. It appears they are using the GPU instead for decoding. This might make H.264 decoding of HD content practical on a hand-held device, or allow the hand-held device to offload decoding to the display device. If the content is sent in an encrypted stream and not decoded until it hits the display, it serves their DRM needs as well.

The iPod Touch and iPhone are pregnant with features and capabilities. They probably will morph into control devices more than phones and music players. The VNC apps and Remote iTunes control give you a hint of what they have in mind. I think the iPhone/iPod Touch platforms will take over the smart mobile market the way Windows took over desktops in the 90's. Originally Steve Jobs claimed that the iPod TOuch had WiFi so that you could buy music from iTunes over WiFi, but later they admitted it was basically a platform to take over the mobile device world.

The Cortex core is forecasted to go multi-core in 2009/2010. The IP was release by ARM in Oct 07 and it takes about 18 months to deliver a product based on those designs. Core speeds of 600M to 1 Ghz. I would not expect 2.0Ghz the heat and power would not work. The current ATV uses a Pentium M single core processor Crofton underclocked at 1.0Ghz. Since Cocoa Touch already works on ARM processors it would be a simple matter to change out the Intel processor in the ATV.

He said the new ARM would be 1.6HGz.

I agree with ~KA; this is the best I have read on the ARM and one of the better articles on anything Apple I have seen in a couple of weeks or more.

Rogre

The Archos which uses this chip above at 600MHZ can do 720P now (it does mention an additional DSP however).  That means it is feature compatible with the current Apple TV hardware.

http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/specs.html?country=global&lang=en

But like I said, this is nothing.  Next years chips will crush this stuff.  And Apple has a hardcore ARM team working on designs optimized for Apple's needs.  This is a very exciting space.

As soon as I saw the title, I said "brilliant; of course" then I saw that the article was more than just an insight but actually a well thought out explanation. What is the internet coming to?

next AppleTV ~= 1.6Ghz dual core atom 330 with nvidia chipset and on-board nvidia 9400. Cost will be much less than current AppleTV and it will run much cooler.

The NVidia VDPAU on Linux has all ready demonstrated total hardware h.264 decode and display. It would be trivial for Apple/NVidia to add this to OSX and they might have already done this given the reports of decreased cpu percentage in play video content with the new MacBooks/MacBook Pros. Look to the cpu/chipset on the MacBook for a hint to what the next MacMini might look like.

Something is brewing, take a look at the changes to IR handling in AppleTV OS version 2.3. Big change that enabled seeing non-Apple IR remotes.

From my crystal ball :)

To me, using some variation on the iPhone OS is a no-brainer for the AppleTV. Then they could easily add all the same apps that are on the iPhone. Since the AppleTV is specifically designed for HDTV, Safari and Mail, etc. should actually look quite decent. And of course, although your iPhone and iPod touch are your first choice in controlers, Apple would have to make some kind of optional motion sensitive remote available.

I do not see Apple using the Atom, as it will directly compete against a very successful Macbook product line.
I've always loved the ARM core (from my Digital StrongArm days), as it's the most power efficient core.
Apple's future is indeed ARM, as it's already using it on the iPhone & iPods. In fact, the App store s/w runs exclusively on the ARM (iPhone and iPod Touch).

"I do not see Apple using the Atom, as it will directly compete against a very successful Macbook product line."

Not really if you understand the real performance of the 1.6GHz dual-core atom. Faster than the pentium-m (about 2X) but much slower than any current Core2 Duo. Comparing it to a 1st gen 1.6GHz Core Duo in the MacMini, it's much slower even with both running at the same cpu clock rate.

And never said anything about Apple using the atom 330 in their notebook/desktop line. That would be a very big step backwards in terms of performance. Using the Atom 330/nvidia chipset in the AppleTV would make sense from a cost/performance/power stand point.

This is what I would like to see in the new Apple TV:
1. At least two (or better three) ATSC tuners for receiving over-the-air HD broadcast channels.
2. DVR capability in order to record broadcast programs.
3. Program guide to schedule recordings.
4. Current Apple TV features.
5. Blu-Ray player would be nice.
6. Cable card slot would be nice.

Whereas features #5 and #6 would dramatically increase the appeal of the new Apple TV, the first three features are a must. With the first three features, Apple would be able to directly compete against cable and satellite TV companies.

I would personally drop my cable provider if I could use one box for watching and recording over-the-air broadcast channels as well as for purchasing and downloading shows only available on non-over-the-air channels, using the iTunes store. This, plus iTunes movie rentals and sales would create a real entertainment hub that could completely replace a cable or satellite provider and a Netflix or Blockbuster monthly subscription. My wife and I ran some numbers, and we would save around $700/year if we were to purchase season passes for the shows that we watch using our cable provider's DVR if we were to drop our cable provider and use iTunes instead. The only downside to doing this with the current generation of Apple TV is that we would not retain access to some of the content on broadcast channels with and have no way of recording programs off those channels unless we went with TiVo (considerable upfront expense plus monthly subscription costs that all but obliterates any savings).

If Apple added a Blue-Ray player to the mix, they could easily capture the market with such an entertainment hub. Needless to say that Apple could create media extenders that could connect to this media hub wirelessly and stream content to additional TVs in the household. Also, the same media hub could be a RAID-based centralized storage not just for video files downloaded from iTunes but also for your iTunes audio library, iPhoto library, as well as other files (documents, personal finance management files, text files, etc).

I am not naive to expect Apple to release a device with all these features next year, but a current Apple TV feature set plus items 1-3 on my list is something I would really like to see next year. I would buy such a device the day it is released regardless of the price (within reason).

That's not to say they can't give it access to games and some web content but DVR abilities are redundent to purchasing TV shows via iTunes. You can use Elgato's HomeRun to capture Over the air content (which is the only content AppleTV might consider). Until there is a real cable card standard, there can be no reasonable way to allow AppleTV or Tivo for that matter to compete with the TV providers.